Hello, all. I'm a longtime reader, very new participant.
I love Japanese greens and have for a long time, but it has really been all about different sencha. I do like the occasional genmaicha, love houji-kukicha, just now getting more into matcha, etc. But my main question here is about gyokuro. I have had a few here and there; like many have mentioned, the results have been varied. But one thing I have never experienced is this extreme sweetness that some people mention. I saw in a past post someone said it was almost sugary sweet. I definitely have never experienced that. Most recently, with Den's Suimei, I have experimented with everything from very powerful broth-like umami flavors, to lighter less astringent and mildly vegetal flavors. Yes, there is a subtle sweetness, definite velvety mouthfeel, but not this smooth-drinking super sweet dew that seems to evade me. And some infusions have been like punch-in-the-face astringent depending on the parameters.
I do like the Suimei, but does anyone have thoughts, feedback, etc. on this smoothly sweet result that I can't seem to nail? Or is it simply a matter of misguided expectations on my part?
Also, regarding water, are most of you boil and then cool-down types, or catch it on the up before the boil? I know it depends on the tea, and the Japanese way seems to be boil then cool, especially for more sensitive, cooler water teas. But, I'm interested to know if you vary your water heating for different teas. Same for all teas? Thanks very much, and sorry so long!
well welcome mate !!...
ALWAYS - temperature should NEVER be more than 150 for the 1st and 2nd brew. For the subsequent brews the water may be higher in temp. I use the 5 $ gauge from starbucks and it has worked so far.
You are right, that sugary sweet taste is not there most of the times. I am currently using the den's gyokuro and I am disappointed. People here swear by the o-cha offerings.
I would say - try the ito-en gyokuro. Depending on the amount and the brew time, you can get that whole mouthful feel with a hint of sweetness.
Correct me if I am wrong guys but I don't think you are going to get that "sugary" sweet taste.
Please keep in mind that the condition of the palate also is an important but overlooked factor.
If you live close by, try out the ito-en store in NY. The guys will make a perfect sample of the tea for you.
ALWAYS - temperature should NEVER be more than 150 for the 1st and 2nd brew. For the subsequent brews the water may be higher in temp. I use the 5 $ gauge from starbucks and it has worked so far.
You are right, that sugary sweet taste is not there most of the times. I am currently using the den's gyokuro and I am disappointed. People here swear by the o-cha offerings.
I would say - try the ito-en gyokuro. Depending on the amount and the brew time, you can get that whole mouthful feel with a hint of sweetness.
Correct me if I am wrong guys but I don't think you are going to get that "sugary" sweet taste.
Please keep in mind that the condition of the palate also is an important but overlooked factor.
If you live close by, try out the ito-en store in NY. The guys will make a perfect sample of the tea for you.
I boil the water and then let it cool down. It is easier to control the temperature this way.
I preheat the teapot.
8gr 80-100ml 55°C (130°F) 90s 5s 15s 30s 60s is a good starting point for high quality gyokuro.
A lesser grade will yield bitter brews with a 2-3g/30ml leaves/water ratio. It could be brewed 1g/30ml for a longer time (150s) for the first steep.
No sugary sweet taste for gyokuro for me although I tasted about 15 different ones.
I preheat the teapot.
8gr 80-100ml 55°C (130°F) 90s 5s 15s 30s 60s is a good starting point for high quality gyokuro.
A lesser grade will yield bitter brews with a 2-3g/30ml leaves/water ratio. It could be brewed 1g/30ml for a longer time (150s) for the first steep.
No sugary sweet taste for gyokuro for me although I tasted about 15 different ones.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. To be sure, regarding water temp I have been typically working with 135 to 140 degrees. I've been working with 4 to 6 grams with 4 oz. of water.
I feel a little more sane knowing that the overt sweetness is not a typical characteristic. I do indeed get a subtle sweetness that seems more connected to mouthfeel and the full-bodied umami characteristics. Perhaps I'll give Ito En a try. Admittedly, I've steered clear of the larger companies, but I have had other teas from them and they were actually pretty good.
And, thanks for the welcome. I appreciate you all taking the time to write.
I feel a little more sane knowing that the overt sweetness is not a typical characteristic. I do indeed get a subtle sweetness that seems more connected to mouthfeel and the full-bodied umami characteristics. Perhaps I'll give Ito En a try. Admittedly, I've steered clear of the larger companies, but I have had other teas from them and they were actually pretty good.
And, thanks for the welcome. I appreciate you all taking the time to write.
You are welcome! and believe me - its a pleasure helping someone discover the path to gyokuro nirvana.danevan wrote:Thanks for the feedback everyone. To be sure, regarding water temp I have been typically working with 135 to 140 degrees. I've been working with 4 to 6 grams with 4 oz. of water.
I feel a little more sane knowing that the overt sweetness is not a typical characteristic. I do indeed get a subtle sweetness that seems more connected to mouthfeel and the full-bodied umami characteristics. Perhaps I'll give Ito En a try. Admittedly, I've steered clear of the larger companies, but I have had other teas from them and they were actually pretty good.
And, thanks for the welcome. I appreciate you all taking the time to write.
When you try the itoen - try their megami sencha - its not as expensive as others but it has absolutely not astringency at all.
Oct 1st, '08, 09:12
Posts: 104
Joined: Jun 5th, '08, 17:50
Location: Knee-deep in rain steeped tea~
Contact:
tsusentei
A Gyokuro by any other name...
Can still be sugary sweet?! I have a sugary sweet gyokuro right now, so I can attest to its possibilitea~. Spending most of my free time working on tea farms in the way-outback of Japan I feel confident in saying that there are as many gyokuros as there are techniques related to their imbibing. Ingen was the first to record the "white snow tea", or tea infused with naturally distilled ice water. And after that many continued to drink tea that was, itself, boiled. The most recent connoisseur's tea in Japan is Baisao's five step.
You can tell a good tea very easily. The leaves, after full steeping, should be tender with a texture somewhere twixt spinach and kale, and have no flavor remaining what-so-ever. At this point a good tea leaf will be extremely edible, to the point that one will feel wasteful by discarding the vivid green mess.
MOST importantly, never say never. A good tea will never taste astringent or unpleasantly bitter, regardless of your steeping method. Just find a flavor profile that works for you(^^)!
You can tell a good tea very easily. The leaves, after full steeping, should be tender with a texture somewhere twixt spinach and kale, and have no flavor remaining what-so-ever. At this point a good tea leaf will be extremely edible, to the point that one will feel wasteful by discarding the vivid green mess.
MOST importantly, never say never. A good tea will never taste astringent or unpleasantly bitter, regardless of your steeping method. Just find a flavor profile that works for you(^^)!
Oct 2nd, '08, 01:33
Posts: 104
Joined: Jun 5th, '08, 17:50
Location: Knee-deep in rain steeped tea~
Contact:
tsusentei
I am drinking a Tana-kake Gokou varietal Gyokuro from the town of Wazuka, in the mountains between Uji and Nara. If you are looking for a brand, it is my own. I go picking once or twice a year. How about you? Are you sticking with the Suimei? Den's Suimei is definitely the best of his teas, and not bad in my opinion, but it does feel a bit dry to me overall. If you would like some of mine, I can send it along.