Hi, long time lurker here.
I'm looking for a new kyusu and was wondering, how are Hagi teapots compared to Tokoname teapots, does the taste of a tea brewed in both differ, and if such how? Also, if they are different, is any teapot preferred for a certain type of tea?
The teapots I'm specifically looking at are either Deishi-Hagi, or Hokujo-Tokoname.
I apologize if this topic have been up for discussion, but I could not find anything similar while searching
Thanks
Apr 2nd, '09, 19:12
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Welcome Jesper! You have good taste! 
They are as different as night and day, yet the same.
The Tokoname can brew just about anything, the Hagi can with the possible exception of deep steamed sencha (fukamushicha). I would not recommend flavored teas for either.
The Tokoname will not absorb much odor wise except maybe over many years of use, the clay is denser and finer than most Yixing which will absorb much more.
The Hagi by nature is much more absorbent since it is a sandy clay, but they recommend that you dip it in hot water before use in order to reduce this.
I think more info from you would be helpful, such as what are your plans for this pot? I have both and love each. Heck, get both!!!
There is a Hagi topic, btw.
They are as different as night and day, yet the same.
The Tokoname can brew just about anything, the Hagi can with the possible exception of deep steamed sencha (fukamushicha). I would not recommend flavored teas for either.
The Tokoname will not absorb much odor wise except maybe over many years of use, the clay is denser and finer than most Yixing which will absorb much more.
The Hagi by nature is much more absorbent since it is a sandy clay, but they recommend that you dip it in hot water before use in order to reduce this.
I think more info from you would be helpful, such as what are your plans for this pot? I have both and love each. Heck, get both!!!
There is a Hagi topic, btw.
blah blah blah SENCHA blah blah blah!!!
Apr 2nd, '09, 20:12
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yes..i believe Chip has a *few* Hagi pieces..Chip wrote:Welcome Jesper! You have good taste!
They are as different as night and day, yet the same.
The Tokoname can brew just about anything, the Hagi can with the possible exception of deep steamed sencha (fukamushicha). I would not recommend flavored teas for either.
The Tokoname will not absorb much odor wise except maybe over many years of use, the clay is denser and finer than most Yixing which will absorb much more.
The Hagi by nature is much more absorbent since it is a sandy clay, but they recommend that you dip it in hot water before use in order to reduce this.
I think more info from you would be helpful, such as what are your plans for this pot? I have both and love each. Heck, get both!!!
There is a Hagi topic, btw.
Apr 2nd, '09, 20:18
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In fact, I have a shuweeet Deishi Hagi kyusu available that has never been used. I have not seen another like it either. I was thinking of posting it under TeaSwap. 
Re: How are Hagi teapots compared to Tokoname
Jesper,jesper wrote:Hi, long time lurker here.
I'm looking for a new kyusu and was wondering, how are Hagi teapots compared to Tokoname teapots, does the taste of a tea brewed in both differ, and if such how? Also, if they are different, is any teapot preferred for a certain type of tea?
The teapots I'm specifically looking at are either Deishi-Hagi, or Hokujo-Tokoname.
I apologize if this topic have been up for discussion, but I could not find anything similar while searching
Thanks
In a conversation with Akira Hojo of Hojotea, he told me that all Tokoname clay is artificial clay. Artificial meaning not pure out of the earth. They add all kinds of things into it to acheive the look and colors. But, they are lovely to look at. He told me the Banko teapots are still produced using the natural clay and that they are high fired to acheive that absorbency that make clay teapots the most desirable. Just something to think about.
Thanks for the tips!
And yeah, the hagi-thread is what got me started on Deishi
I was mainly planning to use the teapot for sencha, but I was curious whether or not I would be 'locking' myself to a certain type of tea by buying a certain type of teapot.
But as a tea-noob, why shouldn't I brew fukamushi cha in the Hagi? Does the pot absorb too much of the aroma?
Gah, I want both, I've heard that sms-loans are nice..
And yeah, the hagi-thread is what got me started on Deishi
I was mainly planning to use the teapot for sencha, but I was curious whether or not I would be 'locking' myself to a certain type of tea by buying a certain type of teapot.
But as a tea-noob, why shouldn't I brew fukamushi cha in the Hagi? Does the pot absorb too much of the aroma?
Gah, I want both, I've heard that sms-loans are nice..
I think because the holes used for the strainer are too big for fukamushi tea. Too many tea particles/pieces would find their way into your cup. That's just my observation though I don't own a Hagi teapot...yet.jesper wrote:
But as a tea-noob, why shouldn't I brew fukamushi cha in the Hagi? Does the pot absorb too much of the aroma?
Gah, I want both, I've heard that sms-loans are nice..
Why not buy both? Tokoname and Hagi have been around for centuries, they will still be around when you are ready to buy another pot.
Apr 3rd, '09, 10:39
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Yes, the holes allow a lot of particles through for fukamushi. The screen on Tokoname is "superior" for some teas. The Hagi is more rudimentary, but this is part of the charm of Hagi.Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:I think because the holes used for the strainer are too big for fukamushi tea. Too many tea particles/pieces would find their way into your cup. That's just my observation though I don't own a Hagi teapot...yet.jesper wrote:
But as a tea-noob, why shouldn't I brew fukamushi cha in the Hagi? Does the pot absorb too much of the aroma?
Gah, I want both, I've heard that sms-loans are nice..
I personally do not mind particles in my cup, as long as it it is not in excess.
I have both, but I prefer my Hagi for daily sencha.
Though I really don't notice a difference in tea taste, my Hagi does smell like sencha where my Tokoname does not (for the reasons Chip mentioned above). I don't think a Hagi will lock you into a certain "type" of tea, but there are some I wouldn't brew in it (again...what Chip said). About the strainer...AGAIN...I agree with what Chip said.
Another note...I don't even think I could get the parameters correct to compare taste between my H & T. Sizes, shape, heat retention, etc... would make that very difficult. But I can say this, they both brew good tea.
So, on to my opinions about Hagi and Tokoname.
I feel Hagi are more tactile and connected...I feel they are more natural, softer, and warmer. But, at the same time, I feel they have a "bigness" and a bold presence. I am much more open, aware, and care free when drinking with my Hagi. Though I have the simplicity of very few things on the table, I also have the natural imprecise look and feel of the Hagi. I also prefer drinking out of Hagi yunomi...they tend to be larger and I like that with my sencha. For some reason (you could call it obsession) I pair my wares with other like-made wares.
I feel the Tokoname are more precise. They feel more symmetric and mechanical. They have a very beautiful exactness to them. For some reason this sense of precision makes me more ritualized, and detail oriented when I use them. I use one of my Tokoname for gyokuro. I use it because I like the "perfectness" of it. And, for some reason I go kinda mental when it comes to gyokuro (and shincha), and I get really focused. My parameters and actions are very specific.
Mostly it's just a reason to collect more tea ware, but the differences I mentioned are real for me. The wares change how I experience my tea (which really could change the taste if I think about it).
Of course, like everything having to do with tea (and most other things), it's a matter of personal preference.
Do whatever it is that makes you smile and relax. Above all, just enjoy yourself. A tea session is truly something to be grateful for, don't miss it because you think you should be doing it a certain way.
My wooden nickel.
-- Joe
Though I really don't notice a difference in tea taste, my Hagi does smell like sencha where my Tokoname does not (for the reasons Chip mentioned above). I don't think a Hagi will lock you into a certain "type" of tea, but there are some I wouldn't brew in it (again...what Chip said). About the strainer...AGAIN...I agree with what Chip said.
Another note...I don't even think I could get the parameters correct to compare taste between my H & T. Sizes, shape, heat retention, etc... would make that very difficult. But I can say this, they both brew good tea.
So, on to my opinions about Hagi and Tokoname.
I feel Hagi are more tactile and connected...I feel they are more natural, softer, and warmer. But, at the same time, I feel they have a "bigness" and a bold presence. I am much more open, aware, and care free when drinking with my Hagi. Though I have the simplicity of very few things on the table, I also have the natural imprecise look and feel of the Hagi. I also prefer drinking out of Hagi yunomi...they tend to be larger and I like that with my sencha. For some reason (you could call it obsession) I pair my wares with other like-made wares.
I feel the Tokoname are more precise. They feel more symmetric and mechanical. They have a very beautiful exactness to them. For some reason this sense of precision makes me more ritualized, and detail oriented when I use them. I use one of my Tokoname for gyokuro. I use it because I like the "perfectness" of it. And, for some reason I go kinda mental when it comes to gyokuro (and shincha), and I get really focused. My parameters and actions are very specific.
Mostly it's just a reason to collect more tea ware, but the differences I mentioned are real for me. The wares change how I experience my tea (which really could change the taste if I think about it).
Of course, like everything having to do with tea (and most other things), it's a matter of personal preference.
Do whatever it is that makes you smile and relax. Above all, just enjoy yourself. A tea session is truly something to be grateful for, don't miss it because you think you should be doing it a certain way.
My wooden nickel.
-- Joe
Apr 3rd, '09, 11:50
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Joined: Dec 30th, '08, 21:16
Location: The foot of the great Smoky Mountains
dont be sorry! I completely understand how you feel..it's the same way for me kind of. Although I am not necessarily "obessively specific" about my ware parings i do use what makes sme feel "good" at the time. I guess for me i would have to say I probably wouldnt notice a difference in taste between the two as I really feel my palatte is not *that* refined. But I can say that process of making my tea..and the pots and kettles I use to do so make the experience much more enjoyable then say sticking a tea bag into a "regular" coffe cup/tea cup type of vessel.JoeCha wrote:Sorry for the wall of text...dang. I tend to do that.
-- Joe
For example..my current favorite cup is neither chinese, japanese or taiwanese.. but i just *love* drinking out of it. the feel of it in my handis perfect, the textures are awesome and the colors its made of. I like *looking* at my tea in this cup. My whole tea drinking experience is enhanced by this cup!
and here some links to some close ups
http://ny-image1.etsy.com/il_430xN.53381205.jpg
http://ny-image1.etsy.com/il_430xN.53381265.jpg
http://ny-image3.etsy.com/il_430xN.53381159.jpg
Apr 3rd, '09, 12:05
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Nice yunomi, reminds me of a blend of Hagi, Shino, and Bizen, combining elements of each.
Nice comments JoeCha! I think my Hagi allows me to be more casual than my tokoname, but I have some Hagi that makes me sit down and pay attention because of my deep appreciation of the kyusu, cup ...
But I have often used the word "precision" in describing Japanese tea in general, however that was before Hagi.
Nice comments JoeCha! I think my Hagi allows me to be more casual than my tokoname, but I have some Hagi that makes me sit down and pay attention because of my deep appreciation of the kyusu, cup ...
But I have often used the word "precision" in describing Japanese tea in general, however that was before Hagi.
Yeah, I tried to make it clear that it was really all just MY perception there.
And believe me, I revere my Hagi. All of it.
I know what you are saying about precision with Japanese tea, but only becuase my tea backround is rooted in pu erh and Chinese oolongs.
Gongfu is messy and chaotic compared to the Japanese style. Thogh gongfu takes skill, it also takes a bunch of tea gear (well, for most people). In fact, if there isn't water everywhere when I'm done brewing up some nice pu then I fell as though I've done something wrong.
-- Joe
And believe me, I revere my Hagi. All of it.
I know what you are saying about precision with Japanese tea, but only becuase my tea backround is rooted in pu erh and Chinese oolongs.
Gongfu is messy and chaotic compared to the Japanese style. Thogh gongfu takes skill, it also takes a bunch of tea gear (well, for most people). In fact, if there isn't water everywhere when I'm done brewing up some nice pu then I fell as though I've done something wrong.
-- Joe
I own quite a few kyusu including seven Hokujo's. I have found the Hokujo's to be one of the best values in teaware. I feel they do an exceptional job with first harvest sencha. They tend to be thin and light, which is a plus for this type of tea with tender, small leaves. Be aware that all Hokujo's use clay filters and with some you can't pour fast or you may get some clogging, at least with fukamashi. I've run into this with quite a few Tononame's with the clay filters but less so with the Hokujo kyusu.
I've never owned a Hagi kyusu so I can't comment on them other than to say that the filter holes are extremely large on some of them. I own quite a few Hagi cups and matcha chawan and although I do like them, many of them leak. Some Hagi items leak excessively like my Deishi matcha chawan. I've stopped buying Deishi products because I think there are better craftsmen out there doing Hagi. Two Japanese vendors, when presented with this question, agreed and said that Deishi is much more popular in the West than he is in Japan.
In case anyone takes the Deishi comments personally, I own several of his products and this is my honest opinion based on the cash laid out and what I consider to be a poor return for that investment.
I've never owned a Hagi kyusu so I can't comment on them other than to say that the filter holes are extremely large on some of them. I own quite a few Hagi cups and matcha chawan and although I do like them, many of them leak. Some Hagi items leak excessively like my Deishi matcha chawan. I've stopped buying Deishi products because I think there are better craftsmen out there doing Hagi. Two Japanese vendors, when presented with this question, agreed and said that Deishi is much more popular in the West than he is in Japan.
In case anyone takes the Deishi comments personally, I own several of his products and this is my honest opinion based on the cash laid out and what I consider to be a poor return for that investment.
Apr 4th, '09, 19:12
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Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion, and so am I. I own several different Hagi craftsman's works, and several are kyusu (yeah the holes are larger, more rudimentary than Tokoname, I have around 10 Tokoname). Perhaps it would have been more productive and helpful to post about Hagi kyusu one likes versus notbritt wrote:In case anyone takes the Deishi comments personally, I own several of his products and this is my honest opinion based on the cash laid out and what I consider to be a poor return for that investment.
especially given non ownership of a Deishi kyusu, which is the topic anyway. But wait ... you do not own a Hagi kyusu. 
My everyday Hagi kyusu is a Deishi, works like a charm and never leaked. Of the Deishi I own, I find them to be hard working pieces and very pleasing, they represent mainly my everyday Hagi. I own one that leaks a bit and it is not uncommon to encounter this given the high rough sand content. The piece is new and I am certain it will remedy itself, but if it does not, there are other easy remedies.
Deishi is priced for everyday use and enjoyment, something I cannot say for my 200 USD kyusu (which is gorgeous). I believe they are a very good value, imho. Whether Deishi is popular in Japan or the West, I really do not care. I am going to like what I like
