How to Pu?

One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.


Apr 25th, '09, 15:47
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How to Pu?

by Phenixmirage » Apr 25th, '09, 15:47

I'm a newbie tea enthusiast getting interested in Pu's, but so far my only experience has been Rishi's Pu-erh Ginger. It's been tasty, but now I'd like to try something more "authentic." All those big tea cakes look a bit daunting when just starting out though, so....

What sort of equipment should I have to get the must out of pu-erh without doing an entire gong-fu ceremony? I understand I should at least get a gaiwan, but do I need anything else? Should I get one of those picks/bamboo knives for prying apart pu-erh?

I'm not familiar with gong-fu style brewing, any tips or pointers toward simple, easy to understand instructions are appreciated. :) Also, how good/bad is western-style brewing for a pu-erh?

Pu-erh iced tea, worthwhile or wasteful? hot brew or cold brew?

Thanks, I appreciate any help given. :)

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Apr 25th, '09, 15:55
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by shogun89 » Apr 25th, '09, 15:55

Alright, welcome first of all. You asked many questions that could be written about for pages but I will try to knock it out as quickly as possible.

First off, you will want to buy yourself a gaiwan and possibly a yixing (about 130-150 ml.) not necessary but recommended, buy a cheap one like $12, thats what I do and they work fine. Next you are going to want some quality puerh. Check out this site.
www.puerhshop.com
On here, I would get a few cakes, yes cakes not samples as you need to learn a tea and a sample will not allow you to do that. So pick up a sheng and a shu, if you want some tips on which to get just ask.
For gongfu you are going to need a gaiwan or yixing and thats really it as long as you are doing it informally. A knife or pick is completely unnecessary IMO, get yourself a pearing knife and stick it in the side of the cake, pry off about 5 grams and trow it in the pot. Pour boiling water on and drain after about 5-10 seconds. First infusion is generally about 7 seconds then 10, 20, 30, 40, 1 minute. This again is just a general overview and is not a set of rules, its just what I do. I hope this helps.

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Apr 25th, '09, 18:43
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by tony shlongini » Apr 25th, '09, 18:43

shogun89 wrote:On here, I would get a few cakes, yes cakes not samples as you need to learn a tea and a sample will not allow you to do that.
Finally, somebody gets it. :lol:


A cake is a sample.

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Apr 25th, '09, 19:02
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by shogun89 » Apr 25th, '09, 19:02

tony shlongini wrote:
shogun89 wrote:On here, I would get a few cakes, yes cakes not samples as you need to learn a tea and a sample will not allow you to do that.
Finally, somebody gets it. :lol:


A cake is a sample.
Yeah, I've never liked the samples. Brew it 2 times then your like "wait did I like that tea or not?" I need at least 4 seasons to get to know a tea.

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Apr 26th, '09, 14:06
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by hop_goblin » Apr 26th, '09, 14:06

tony shlongini wrote:
shogun89 wrote:On here, I would get a few cakes, yes cakes not samples as you need to learn a tea and a sample will not allow you to do that.
Finally, somebody gets it. :lol:


A cake is a sample.
I think having a few sessions with a sample is suffcient in order to determine whether something is worth keeping around. IMHO, it doesn't take an entire cake to disern a pu-erh's acidity, color, sweetness, bitterness, astrigency, smokiness, sensations, leaf quality, liquor clarity and durablity - 4 sessions is probably enough. However, if your intentions are to train a palate of the different nuances from differnt mountains than perhaps a cake would be in order.

Iced pu! NO NO NO NO NO NO NO :twisted:

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May 1st, '09, 08:29
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by JAS-eTea Guy » May 1st, '09, 08:29

tony shlongini wrote:
shogun89 wrote:On here, I would get a few cakes, yes cakes not samples as you need to learn a tea and a sample will not allow you to do that.
Finally, somebody gets it. :lol:


A cake is a sample.
:lol: Too funny! It is also ultimately much more economical to get a cake. You pay for the labor to break up the cake into a sample when you get a sample. When I say labor, this can be considerable when you are talking about some of the highly compressed cakes and you are trying to do minimum leaf damage.

Steve
Good tea drinking,
Steve

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May 1st, '09, 09:51
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by hop_goblin » May 1st, '09, 09:51

netsurfr wrote:
tony shlongini wrote:
shogun89 wrote:On here, I would get a few cakes, yes cakes not samples as you need to learn a tea and a sample will not allow you to do that.
Finally, somebody gets it. :lol:


A cake is a sample.
:lol: Too funny! It is also ultimately much more economical to get a cake. You pay for the labor to break up the cake into a sample when you get a sample. When I say labor, this can be considerable when you are talking about some of the highly compressed cakes and you are trying to do minimum leaf damage.

Steve
I will use a wine analogy since it has already been used. It doesn't take a case of wine to figure out whether you want to drink it. Sure a whole beeng is economical if you like it, but if you don't you just spent money on something that will take up space in your collection and money on something that could of been spent more wisely. The trick to pu is not to be impetuous or compulsive.

To each there own. I think I am very much a discriminate buyer, and I already have cakes in my collection that I wish I never bought. I could just imagine what my collection would look like if I purchased every beeng, zhuancha, tuocha, etc I wanted to taste. Also, from a aging standpoint, of every crappy item you buy, you rob humidity from something that could very well beoome something to remember. For most collections, humidity is also finite. Especially for those who use those who don't have such a sophisticatedd humidity control unit like those custom made pumidors.

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May 1st, '09, 11:10
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by tony shlongini » May 1st, '09, 11:10

I love the wine analogies, but it's important to point out where the relationships are non linear.

Wine is so extraordinarilly expensive compared to tea that you can't simply sit back and say, "I don't know. Maybe it's me, but I'm just not getting it. I'll have to pop another $40 bottle tomorrow and give it another go." With wine, you have to decide rather quickly, sometimes with a mere taste, if it's worthy of laying down for the long haul. Professional wine tasters such as Parker make pronouncements with far reaching implications (a review can make or break a producer's bottom line) without even swallowing a sip. As long as you have a well stored (ie: not ruined) bottle and a clean glass, the presentation should be duplicateable, and subject only to the not unimportant peripheral variables- setting, company, state of health, time of day, etc.

With tea, it's harder to replicate what's in the cup. How many times have you brewed a perfect cup, only to have trouble duplicating the experience the next time? I've seen some very experienced folks change their opinion of a tea. Sometimes it falls into disfavor; other times you may finally get a handle on it and come to appreciate its charm. Tea simply will not consistently show itself the way a poured glass of wine will. It's always a matter of this needs a bit more leaf, or that was brewed a few seconds too long, or perhaps the temperature was a few degrees too high. Even after you learn how to get the most out of specific tea, there's another matter- our own tastes change. You may champion the virtues of a sheng early in your tasting career, then catch yourself saying "What the hell was I thinking?" later on. A sample may provide enough material to yield sufficient representative sessions to allow for an informed opinion, but I don't think 25g is enough to reveal everything there is to know.

Moreover, unlike wine, tea is something that we drink a lot of. I mean lots, and every day. This requires that we have a sizeable supply on hand. I'm sure that every person here, myself included, has purchased a cake that they regret buying, but by and large most of the items newbies will consider have already been preselected by the knowledgeable folks on this site. If you buy a cake of a classic recipe, it may not exactly suit the newbie's nascent palate, but it's not going to be a bad tea. With 365 tea drinking days in a year, you're going to soon have to face the fact that you'll need a goodly number of bings to keep you going. At roughly 30-70 sessions per bing on the Hobbes-Benny* scale, it's the only way to ensure a steady supply, and you can only get by on samples for so long. Once a newbie has familiarized himself with the standard fare, then it's a good idea to try samples of pricey, exotic offerings before committing.






*Tough guy Hobbes, using plenty 'o leaf, only gets ~30 sessions per bing, while notorious cheapskate Jack Benny, utilizing a puny 5g per, dust and all, claims upwards of 70 sessions.

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May 1st, '09, 13:47
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by hop_goblin » May 1st, '09, 13:47

tony shlongini wrote:I love the wine analogies, but it's important to point out where the relationships are non linear.

Wine is so extraordinarilly expensive compared to tea that you can't simply sit back and say, "I don't know. Maybe it's me, but I'm just not getting it. I'll have to pop another $40 bottle tomorrow and give it another go." With wine, you have to decide rather quickly, sometimes with a mere taste, if it's worthy of laying down for the long haul. Professional wine tasters such as Parker make pronouncements with far reaching implications (a review can make or break a producer's bottom line) without even swallowing a sip. As long as you have a well stored (ie: not ruined) bottle and a clean glass, the presentation should be duplicateable, and subject only to the not unimportant peripheral variables- setting, company, state of health, time of day, etc.

With tea, it's harder to replicate what's in the cup. How many times have you brewed a perfect cup, only to have trouble duplicating the experience the next time? I've seen some very experienced folks change their opinion of a tea. Sometimes it falls into disfavor; other times you may finally get a handle on it and come to appreciate its charm. Tea simply will not consistently show itself the way a poured glass of wine will. It's always a matter of this needs a bit more leaf, or that was brewed a few seconds too long, or perhaps the temperature was a few degrees too high. Even after you learn how to get the most out of specific tea, there's another matter- our own tastes change. You may champion the virtues of a sheng early in your tasting career, then catch yourself saying "What the hell was I thinking?" later on. A sample may provide enough material to yield sufficient representative sessions to allow for an informed opinion, but I don't think 25g is enough to reveal everything there is to know.

Moreover, unlike wine, tea is something that we drink a lot of. I mean lots, and every day. This requires that we have a sizeable supply on hand. I'm sure that every person here, myself included, has purchased a cake that they regret buying, but by and large most of the items newbies will consider have already been preselected by the knowledgeable folks on this site. If you buy a cake of a classic recipe, it may not exactly suit the newbie's nascent palate, but it's not going to be a bad tea. With 365 tea drinking days in a year, you're going to soon have to face the fact that you'll need a goodly number of bings to keep you going. At roughly 30-70 sessions per bing on the Hobbes-Benny* scale, it's the only way to ensure a steady supply, and you can only get by on samples for so long. Once a newbie has familiarized himself with the standard fare, then it's a good idea to try samples of pricey, exotic offerings before committing.






*Tough guy Hobbes, using plenty 'o leaf, only gets ~30 sessions per bing, while notorious cheapskate Jack Benny, utilizing a puny 5g per, dust and all, claims upwards of 70 sessions.
I can see your point. However, I still believe there is a flaw in your logic. I think you are approaching pu-erh like any other tea. The appreciation of young sheng is entirely different as a consequence of its intended purpose, that is, that is is meant to be stored for later consumption. Granted, young sheng can be evaluated for its aromas and taste and perhaps even enjoyed, but the true measure of a young sheng is its durability and qi. For instance, many in Taiwan do not even consider the what nuances in terms of the aromas and taste that a sheng has to offer. Some actually "stress" the tea in order to evaluate how the leaf will react to extreme conditions. Granted, if one is having a bad "tea day", perhaps if it were green or oolong, variances in how it was brewed may affect the overall drinkablitity of the tea . In this respect nuances, aromas, tannins etc may be affected. However, when we are evaluating puerh, nuances, flavors and aromas tend to be secondary. What is important however, is its durability, sensations and qi, none of which can be altered as they are inherent qualities of the leaf itself. This is not to suggests that steeping a young sheng too long will make an insiped brew, of course it will. But from a young sheng appreciation stand point, it should be inconsequential since a potent brew is what want - yet a potent brew that doesn't overly offend the senses. Even an oversteeped brew will say somthing about is durablity and qualities - its color, viscosity, acidity, astrigency etc can all still be evaluated- in fact, this is what the stress test is intended to do. It doesn't take a large number of sessions to determine the strength and durability of a brew. This is my point.

However, as I have already stated, if your intentions are to educate yourself about the nuances found from different mountains then perhaps many infusions is what is in order. But this is different than evaluating the potential aging qualities of young shengpu.

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May 1st, '09, 14:13
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by coloradopu » May 1st, '09, 14:13

Phenixmirage how do
i am new too and i agree with what shogun89 has to say i do this
it works out great! tony shlongini has been pushing the cake thing too and its the way to go.
i often think about the notion hop_goblin has about collecting
I already have cakes in my collection that I wish I never bought. I could just imagine what my collection would look like if I purchased every beeng, zhuancha, tuocha, etc I wanted to taste.
i have the idea that if i buy from someone and they want me to continue to buy from them then samples are just that. samples, that i do not pay for. that they might interest me to buy the hole thing.
i know that

www.puerhshop.com

gives samples for free and i have bought tea based on the sample . so if you do get cakes request samples too. you should not have to pay for them if the seller wants more sales. make shore they do not send samples of stuff you bought from them already though.

so you see hop_goblin is right too. but so is the other advice about cakes. now as fare as having a lot of stuff that an't so good well i look at it as a tool . i have people taste the stuff i do not like in my collection and see what they think. not everyone likes everything i do and if i think its crap and they like it guess who takes some of it home. and in taking this attitude i come to appreciate the tea more, they get tea they like and we all learn from the tea. now if no one likes it at all and it is truly crap and no one wants it, a lesson is still learned too. it stays in the collection as a learning point to yet still be shared on those occasions were such a lesson is needed. lets say someone is called to tea and we meet and they are new what better way to speed down the path than with a good pothole at first as a demonstration of bad tea followed by a formula 1 ride from the best i have.

hope this helps its just one of many view points about tea. you will find that there are many many more out there.
joe
Da rockymountain coonass
:D

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May 1st, '09, 18:25
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by tony shlongini » May 1st, '09, 18:25

hop_goblin wrote:I can see your point. However, I still believe there is a flaw in your logic. I think you are approaching pu-erh like any other tea. The appreciation of young sheng is entirely different as a consequence of its intended purpose, that is, that is is meant to be stored for later consumption. Granted, young sheng can be evaluated for its aromas and taste and perhaps even enjoyed, but the true measure of a young sheng is its durability and qi. For instance, many in Taiwan do not even consider the what nuances in terms of the aromas and taste that a sheng has to offer. Some actually "stress" the tea in order to evaluate how the leaf will react to extreme conditions. Granted, if one is having a bad "tea day", perhaps if it were green or oolong, variances in how it was brewed may affect the overall drinkablitity of the tea . In this respect nuances, aromas, tannins etc may be affected. However, when we are evaluating puerh, nuances, flavors and aromas tend to be secondary. What is important however, is its durability, sensations and qi, none of which can be altered as they are inherent qualities of the leaf itself. This is not to suggests that steeping a young sheng too long will make an insiped brew, of course it will. But from a young sheng appreciation stand point, it should be inconsequential since a potent brew is what want - yet a potent brew that doesn't overly offend the senses. Even an oversteeped brew will say somthing about is durablity and qualities - its color, viscosity, acidity, astrigency etc can all still be evaluated- in fact, this is what the stress test is intended to do. It doesn't take a large number of sessions to determine the strength and durability of a brew. This is my point.

However, as I have already stated, if your intentions are to educate yourself about the nuances found from different mountains then perhaps many infusions is what is in order. But this is different than evaluating the potential aging qualities of young shengpu.
As always, a five star response. Thanks.

I don't want anyone to think that I"m overthinking this, so I'll simplify. When I was a rank newbie and I had samples , I never felt as if I had enough tea. When I accumulated my first half dozen or so cakes, I felt that I had enough raw material to experiment with, compare, and sustain me for a while. It was as simple as that. :lol:

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May 1st, '09, 19:46
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by teashionista » May 1st, '09, 19:46

Well, since the conversation went into this direction, I'd like to solicit comments on my strategy :D

I'm a new pu-erh drinker, and so far I've tried - in the chronological order - a horrid (and cheap) tuo, several loose-leaf shu's, a sample of a young sheng (2006 12 gentlemen Yiwu), a taste of a 2001 sheng at a tea shop, and a 1998 Feng Quing factory tuo. Probably not surprisingly, my favorite was the latter. I was smitten with the floral notes, great aftertaste, and the smell of spent leaves... I completely did not like the young sheng--too astringent, harsh, and a little monotone. I do recognize that at least from the price stand point, it's the best of the lot, and will probably blow my socks off in another 10 years.

I have a suspicion that I'll like a 1980s sheng a lot, but at this point my budget would not support this habit, and my palate would not appreciate the nuances. :D

So I'm pondering the following strategy: start buying sheng cakes (just a couple/yr) of big factory stuff (Menghai 7542 certainly comes to mind) annually. This will be stored for the next decade, and hopefully, my taste buds will come around to appreciating it when it's ready ;) For immediate consumption, buy good shu and maybe 20g packs of good sheng here and there.

The question is this: if I keep drinking shu for the next 5-6 yrs, how would I ever develop a taste for good sheng? And when my hypothetical cakes are ready for drinking, would I not get mad with myself for not buying more??

And btw, I also found that 10g samples do nothing for me--it still takes at least two attempts to get the water/leaf ratio right... so buying 1972 Menghai in 10g samples is out of question, at least for now...

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May 1st, '09, 19:58
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by coloradopu » May 1st, '09, 19:58

just a suggestion

3 cake rule

i heard it somewhere and bet someone here can tell you more but as i have it
1 to drink now-- or part of it
1 to drink in a few years
1 to age as long as you can

or something like that
but i like the idea of finding someone who has sheng to share with you.

:wink:

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May 1st, '09, 21:13
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by tony shlongini » May 1st, '09, 21:13

Make it a three tong rule and you have yourself a deal! :lol:

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