Japanese made chawan vs. non-japanese made chawan

[bonjiri]

a short chat about Japanese made chawan versus non-Japanese made chawan/chadogu (american/european).

what will the market bear in terms of astronomical prices in japan versus chawan/chadogu in the places outside of japan. i.e. raku kichizaemon's nearly US$5000 chawans and non japanese maker's chawans selling for way less. please share your thoughts and please post examples of work.

what about functionality ? does the chawan function ?

there are some cool ceramic artist like kakurezaki sensei who make some wild, modern bizen cha dogu. thoughts ? his chawan sell out at gallery shows and in limited galleries.

humbly !

cory Lum




oh, by the way, this chawan above is by kato tohkuro. although never a living national treasure (ningen kokuho), was one of the most amazing potters in the 20th century. US$ 150,000.00 for sale at kuroda toen in shibuya,tokyo, japan.

[Geekgirl]

Interesting question. I am not versed enough in the art of teaware to be a purist. I know what pleases my eyes and hands, and have very little attachment to whether it was made in Japan by a Japanese potter, or in America, by a non-J potter. I admit that functionality is paramount with me, my brain cannot grasp making "teaware" that cannot be used for tea.

I love variance and creativity in design though, and sometimes you just find an artist where you connect with the work on a visceral level. When that happens, I don't believe it matters about their origins, you just "get it," and perhaps in some way, they just "get you."

What bothers me is when a particular potter becomes a fad, and their work becomes inaccessible to people who appreciate it, due to being purchased by "collectors" and "investors" with more money than aesthetic sense. I know it's great for the artist, but for the lowly art admirer it can be frustrating.

Personally, I prefer lovely pieces that are still relatively affordable- at least enough so that I can appreciate the piece while still being comfortable using it. What a shame when an artist produces a chawan in perfect balance of form and function, then the purchaser puts it on a shelf behind glass and never uses it for the purpose for which it was made.

[bonjiri]

geekgurl

i agree on many levels with what you're saying

an interesting concept too w/ cha dogu is 'shibui' 'wabi', 'wabi sabi'

maybe volumes of writings can be written about the above japanese aesthetics/cultural energy.

so cool !

i'm so happy to be a part of this cool community !

agreed on the prices vs collectors. once the collectors get involved... its no longer 'pure' anymore.


hehe... i love gifting !

tonite , went to the studio to preheat a soda kama. tomorrow i'll be firing from AM to PM hehe !
i'll post the fruits of the labor soon !

i hope this is ok ??? gifts right ?

cheers,
cory Lum

[Geekgirl]

an interesting concept too w/ cha dogu is 'shibui' 'wabi', 'wabi sabi'

maybe volumes of writings can be written about the above japanese aesthetics/cultural energy.

This brings up an interesting point. I've observed (though I'm still just a "baby beginner" in my observations,) that wabi sabi in Japanese pottery is still lovely and functional. Perhaps it is the long history of knowing what is "beauty in imperfection" and what is just meant for crush.

I have a cup from a potter with stripes around the side. He tends to make very regular, symmetrical pieces, but he tells me that when he was incising the rings on this particular cup, he hit a tiny pebble in the clay and the blade skipped. It made a little dip in the rings. Thinking that it was now "ruined," just for the heck of it he brushed the rings with glaze and fired the cup anyways. It turned out to be very lovely, the "imperfection" enhances the appearance of the piece.

But often I've seen work that the artist labels "wabi" but really it just seems that they lack skill but don't want to start over.

Perhaps this is the difference in training, where Japanese potters tend to train under masters who teach them their craft - so that they can identify when something is wabi sabi, and when it is just messed up.

*just my rambling thoughts... hehe.

maybe i must 'gift' chawan to the first 10 people that say they want a chawan to be used and not collected. it will be like a 'grab bag'. all u pay is shipping ? what u think ?

hehe... i love gifting !

Haha! I think you'd make people very happy. BUT... if you are going to do that, wouldn't you rather let the hypothetical 10 people find you rather than announce "freebies?" Because I think then one is back to the same problem except on the other end, of "I'm going to get this thing! Why not? It's FREE!" (I face this same conundrum in my work sometimes. Hard to know what to do.)

But sometimes we do it just for the pleasure though, and not necessarily because someone is "worthy." I do LOVE my chawan, and use it with thanks.

tonite , went to the studio to preheat a soda kama. tomorrow i'll be firing from AM to PM hehe !
i'll post the fruits of the labor soon !

Is this the firing with the nodate chawan? Looking forward to seeing it.

[Smells_Familiar]

maybe i must 'gift' chawan to the first 10 people that say they want a chawan to be used and not collected. it will be like a 'grab bag'. all u pay is shipping ? what u think ?

hehe... i love gifting !

cory,

i'd be honored to use a chawan of yours and fight the urge to ever shelve it, oy!

it would be used and loved often by myself and my son, and we will spread the word appropriately!

adam

(i'd also be happy to pay for it : )

[bonjiri]

aloha


c

[xuancheng]

10 is a lot of chawan .

*********************************************************************

i'll say 5 gifts ! omiyage in the spirit of tea !

1. smells familiar

2. geek gurl

3 left !

aloha !

c

Cory, This is too good to be true!

I would love to use one of your chawan if there are any left! I don't have an American made one yet. How did your firing go?

[Tead Off]

Don't forget me!! I'll even buy one!

[Herb_Master]

What a generous guy, I am tempted to jump on the bandwagon, but unsure if I would do it justice. Is there a smallish one?

[woozl]

I own not a chawan
Although I ordered some kiri no mori from ocha along with my sincha order.
So I am technically a matcha virgin.

[chingwa]

no way... this can't be true

but if so then I agree, the beauty of chawan and indeed much of my understanding of the sensibilities of wabi-sabi are in the beauty of use. If an object has no use then it loses much of it's appeal in the wabi-sabi mindset. Soetsu Yanagi could maybe be an authority on this subject... from what I read he derided most if not all modern pottery as soulless... objects made for beauty rather than use. he went so far as to say objects should not even be signed by the artists or craftsmen who made them.

[Buzz Fledderjohn]

bonjiri,

I love your work and would very much like to be a part of this "gifting". I promise to put the piece to good use.

Like everyone else has stated, I would even be happy to pay for one.

Thanks,
Buzz

[iannon]

am i too late? probably..ive been admiring your work since you started posting..went to your site seeing if i could buy one cant wait to see what you put up next.

[chamekke]

Well, I certainly think that a chawan should be used and not collected!

The thing about tea ceremony is that it doesn't exist unless there is a host and a guest. So, the idea of having a chawan that isn't used is actually absurd. In a way, the chawan is the symbol of both generosity (on the host's part) and gratitude (on the guest's). For me - and I do recognize that this is a minority viewpoint! - the chawan has almost sacramental significance. But, it's only sacramental when it's used and drunk from.

I have many gorgeous chawan made by non-Japanese potters, and I cherish them all. The main difference between Japanese-made chawan and other ones is that in Japan, potters are expected to get the essential dimensions and other characteristics "right" because it's assumed that they'll be used in tea ceremony. So, you can assume that the chawan will comfortably accommodate a whisk, that the foot ring will be a stable support for the bowl, and so on.

In the west, it's more common to find "Japanese-inspired" chawan that may or may not be practically suited for whisking matcha, and this is usually because the potter has not actually tried out the process for him/herself. I've had some interesting conversations with local potters who make chawan, and the light bulb really goes on over the head when I explain what traditionalists look for and why.

Having said that... recreational or casual drinkers of matcha don't generally worry too much about these things, and the only essential characteristic is that the matcha can be whisked satisfactorily inside the bowl! And I generally say that to these potters, since in most cases they will be selling to people who don't have the same obscure fascination with tea ceremony that I do

In terms of aesthetics, non-Japanese chawan are easily as beautiful as the Japanese-made ones. And if I may say so, I think Cory's pieces are outstanding by any standard. I'd love to use them.

[bonjiri]

aloha all!

i'll gift everyone up to this msg

i'll PM you for shipping info

thanks

cory