Also, somebody was going to be doing a water experiment... did that ever get done?
Sorry, I lost track of where everything was...!
Mizusashi, water jug search
So... Herb Master and others -- how did the hunt for a mizusashi go? I vaguely recall there being note of getting one somewhere, but I don't recall seeing a followup.
Also, somebody was going to be doing a water experiment... did that ever get done?
Sorry, I lost track of where everything was...!
Also, somebody was going to be doing a water experiment... did that ever get done?
Sorry, I lost track of where everything was...!
Jun 24th, '09, 06:27
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Herb_Master
I was not looking for a mizusashi, but a water storage container to let water be conditioned for 3 to 5 days before use.
Colorado-Pu quickly threw some together so I purchased one.
Sadly, I have not yet used it, my tap water seems to extra rich in Chlorine and Fluorine lately so I have been using Volvic for brewing.
I guess I need to buy a Brita to take tap water for Colorad-u's Jar.
Colorado-Pu quickly threw some together so I purchased one.
Sadly, I have not yet used it, my tap water seems to extra rich in Chlorine and Fluorine lately so I have been using Volvic for brewing.
I guess I need to buy a Brita to take tap water for Colorad-u's Jar.
Best wishes from Cheshire
i have been using one from the same batch i made here now for a few weeks/ or month and find that the rest does the water good. i still need to do the test with ORP meter and PPM meter to see if it is physically changing the water but i do notice some change toward a kind of softness. it seems to ever so slightly round off some of the sharper notes of the tea. it could be the jar or the water resting in the jar or both.
on the other hand having a 2 l jar of water ready to go into the zero chi right there on the bar is the best attribute.
on the other hand having a 2 l jar of water ready to go into the zero chi right there on the bar is the best attribute.
Basically this charcoal is activated carbon so you can have a look at this.coloradopu wrote:could someone start a thread on how to get bamboo charcoal or how to make it and any of its many uses. i would but i have no idea about this stuff.
The easiest way is by indirect burning of bamboo inside a closed container at very limited amount of oxygen but high temperature, called pyrolysis. If I am not wrong, the "reduction firing" in tetsubin manufacturing also uses this concept.
Results from water jar
sense this is a new thread i will post it here
jar is a glazed exterior stoneware. the interior is un glazed and the stoneware is a pure stoneware nothing added.
day 1
just put the water in the jar PH=7.6 and water hardness or PPM content of the water = 67 low as expected for my well.
day 2
24 hrs PH went up to 7.7 and a big jump in PPM= 74
day 3
36 hrs PH went up again to 7.8 and PPM was stable at 74 PPM
day 4
48 hrs ph went down to 7.7 and PPM still stable @ 74
conclusion ------ well i do not know what to think other than jar has affected the ph and the water hardness. dot to too much but it was measurable.
Taste----- i will need to do more tasting but so fare it is nice seems to mellow tea well and knock out some of that newish profile.
P.S. i have a small tea pot i did with out glaze and a high amount of magnetite removed from concentrates with a magnet. i have a great deal from prospecting. i have yet to test it but i do notice a red or rust tinge about it after washing and feel that the slight ting might produce a nice affect in an Oolong.
comments please or any suggestions or answers to better explain my observations would benefit us all.
sense this is a new thread i will post it here
jar is a glazed exterior stoneware. the interior is un glazed and the stoneware is a pure stoneware nothing added.
day 1
just put the water in the jar PH=7.6 and water hardness or PPM content of the water = 67 low as expected for my well.
day 2
24 hrs PH went up to 7.7 and a big jump in PPM= 74
day 3
36 hrs PH went up again to 7.8 and PPM was stable at 74 PPM
day 4
48 hrs ph went down to 7.7 and PPM still stable @ 74
conclusion ------ well i do not know what to think other than jar has affected the ph and the water hardness. dot to too much but it was measurable.
Taste----- i will need to do more tasting but so fare it is nice seems to mellow tea well and knock out some of that newish profile.
P.S. i have a small tea pot i did with out glaze and a high amount of magnetite removed from concentrates with a magnet. i have a great deal from prospecting. i have yet to test it but i do notice a red or rust tinge about it after washing and feel that the slight ting might produce a nice affect in an Oolong.
comments please or any suggestions or answers to better explain my observations would benefit us all.
Jun 29th, '09, 16:39
Posts: 147
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Location: Mississippi
Jun 29th, '09, 16:46
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TIM
I assume you did not clean out the jar first with boiling water? and pour boiling water to start the aging. Curious to know, on your 4th day, do you smell something funny or "mossy"?coloradopu wrote:Results from water jar
sense this is a new thread i will post it here
jar is a glazed exterior stoneware. the interior is un glazed and the stoneware is a pure stoneware nothing added.
day 1
just put the water in the jar PH=7.6 and water hardness or PPM content of the water = 67 low as expected for my well.
day 2
24 hrs PH went up to 7.7 and a big jump in PPM= 74
day 3
36 hrs PH went up again to 7.8 and PPM was stable at 74 PPM
day 4
48 hrs ph went down to 7.7 and PPM still stable @ 74
conclusion ------ well i do not know what to think other than jar has affected the ph and the water hardness. dot to too much but it was measurable.
Taste----- i will need to do more tasting but so fare it is nice seems to mellow tea well and knock out some of that newish profile.
P.S. i have a small tea pot i did with out glaze and a high amount of magnetite removed from concentrates with a magnet. i have a great deal from prospecting. i have yet to test it but i do notice a red or rust tinge about it after washing and feel that the slight ting might produce a nice affect in an Oolong.
comments please or any suggestions or answers to better explain my observations would benefit us all.
What do you measure in PPM? ionic content or what exactly?
If it is ionic content, increase PPM = increase of hardness, but it could be good for brewing tea. Mineral spring water comprises a lot of minerals, which lead to its hardness but it match well with teas. On the other hand soft water tastes "weird".
I guess clay water jar improves the water by giving some time for chlorine to evaporates from it and it can absorb some organics (not ionic) material and reduce odor. Maybe some minerals on the clay will dissolve into water, but not sure.
In south east asia and india, where availability of drinking water frequently becomes an issue, people store water in clay/stone-ware unglazed jar to improve the taste by removing organics from water. The jar they used are unglazed in and out and it was left opened. Some of the materials from broken jars are mixed with coal and stone to be used to filter and to tune the water as well.
I guess the changes in the measured pH values are merely because of the equipment accuracy and different temperature when you measured the pH. pH is T sensitive.
If it is ionic content, increase PPM = increase of hardness, but it could be good for brewing tea. Mineral spring water comprises a lot of minerals, which lead to its hardness but it match well with teas. On the other hand soft water tastes "weird".
I guess clay water jar improves the water by giving some time for chlorine to evaporates from it and it can absorb some organics (not ionic) material and reduce odor. Maybe some minerals on the clay will dissolve into water, but not sure.
In south east asia and india, where availability of drinking water frequently becomes an issue, people store water in clay/stone-ware unglazed jar to improve the taste by removing organics from water. The jar they used are unglazed in and out and it was left opened. Some of the materials from broken jars are mixed with coal and stone to be used to filter and to tune the water as well.
I guess the changes in the measured pH values are merely because of the equipment accuracy and different temperature when you measured the pH. pH is T sensitive.
me too you could request a brake down from them but it will be in % periodic form.MASALACHAAAAIIIIII Posted: Jun 29th '09 5:39 pm Post subject:
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I'm really curious what the mineralogy of the stone is or the general rock type? That might explain why the ph and ppm increased.
no moss and i used the jar for a month or so refilling it 4 times a week i never boiled it .I assume you did not clean out the jar first with boiling water? and pour boiling water to start the aging. Curious to know, on your 4th day, do you smell something funny or "mossy"?
PH yes good point the water comes out the fossit @ 46 deg F and it then warmed up to 78 deg F the PH meter i have has temp too and i thought it compensated but it might not.betta Posted: Jun 29th '09 5:47 pm Post subject:
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What do you measure in PPM? ionic content or what exactly?
If it is ionic content, increase PPM = increase of hardness, but it could be good for brewing tea. Mineral spring water comprises a lot of minerals, which lead to its hardness but it match well with teas. On the other hand soft water tastes "weird".
I guess clay water jar improves the water by giving some time for chlorine to evaporates from it and it can absorb some organics (not ionic) material and reduce odor. Maybe some minerals on the clay will dissolve into water, but not sure.
In south east Asia and India, where availability of drinking water frequently becomes an issue, people store water in clay/stone-ware unglazed jar to improve the taste by removing organics from water. The jar they used are unglazed in and out and it was left opened. Some of the materials from broken jars are mixed with coal and stone to be used to filter and to tune the water as well.
I guess the changes in the measured pH values are merely because of the equipment accuracy and different temperature when you measured the pH. pH is T sensitive.
i like the expression tune the water ......nice.!
might be good to sell water tuning jars and song bowls..............nice!
i agree with the time thing and for people who have chlorine in the water but i feel it also might allow time for O2 to increase in well water.
PPM is in ionic content and at MG/l i think but i do not think the minerals increase came from the well after being placed in the jar. it had to of come from the jar. unless this instrument which uses electricity to produce a measurement is reading some change in the minerals do to introduction of O2.
the well is a deep rock well @ 80+ feet and i have wondered just how much O2 does make it that fare down before the pump gets to it......................
thanks guys lot more to figure though.........
Wow, there's enough pseudo-science in here to make science teachers die of a heart attack...
So normally a pH meter measures the ionic content of H+ (or H3O+) if you prefer. You would have to also look at the accuracy of the meter. It might measure at +/- 0.1, in which case what you've observed could be just random fluctuations w/in the accuracy of the measuring device.
Which leads me to the second ?? which is that the "ppm" you're measuring can't just be "ionic content." It should be something specific, like chloride ions, or sodium ions, or something like that. If it measured ALL ions (which would include the aforementioned H3O+ ions, not to mention the -OH floating around), it would only really be useful (I guess?) to tell you what the conductivity of the water might be?
Bottom line: the variation in the numbers you observed are probably not significant. And even if there was an actual shift from 7.6 to 7.7 in pH, you as a human being would certainly not notice such a difference.
This brings me back to confusion I've had before about what people think a container is doing to the water. There's really only a couple of options here:
1. The container is leaching chemicals into the water. Whether organic or inorganic. The thing I don't understand here is that... usually, this will eventually stop. Because there is not an infinite supply of chemicals to leach.
2. The container is catalyzing the transformation of something in the water into something else (for example, perhaps residue iron ions are catalyzing the oxidation of something). Now, this could be done "forever" because catalysts aren't consumed (though they can be 'killed'). But this begs the question -- what is being transformed into what? The only thing I can think of is some sort of trace organic compound, but then again, what's it being transformed into?
3. The water is collecting something from the air (and possibly other stuff is then happening to it).
4. Stuff is settling (or evaporating) from the water. What is this stuff? In the case of settling, probably organic matter (as betta mentioned), in the case of evaporation, something like small volatile organic molecules... but most US municipal water supplies don't have these problems (and further, filters take out a lot of these).
In any case, I confess that my personal interest in the matter was simply along the lines of having a large container to store water in, so that I have to fill it up less frequently (I filter water into a separate pitcher currently). Although I have read stories about containers changing the quality of the water, I have yet to see something that isn't pure conjecture.....
So normally a pH meter measures the ionic content of H+ (or H3O+) if you prefer. You would have to also look at the accuracy of the meter. It might measure at +/- 0.1, in which case what you've observed could be just random fluctuations w/in the accuracy of the measuring device.
Which leads me to the second ?? which is that the "ppm" you're measuring can't just be "ionic content." It should be something specific, like chloride ions, or sodium ions, or something like that. If it measured ALL ions (which would include the aforementioned H3O+ ions, not to mention the -OH floating around), it would only really be useful (I guess?) to tell you what the conductivity of the water might be?
Bottom line: the variation in the numbers you observed are probably not significant. And even if there was an actual shift from 7.6 to 7.7 in pH, you as a human being would certainly not notice such a difference.
This brings me back to confusion I've had before about what people think a container is doing to the water. There's really only a couple of options here:
1. The container is leaching chemicals into the water. Whether organic or inorganic. The thing I don't understand here is that... usually, this will eventually stop. Because there is not an infinite supply of chemicals to leach.
2. The container is catalyzing the transformation of something in the water into something else (for example, perhaps residue iron ions are catalyzing the oxidation of something). Now, this could be done "forever" because catalysts aren't consumed (though they can be 'killed'). But this begs the question -- what is being transformed into what? The only thing I can think of is some sort of trace organic compound, but then again, what's it being transformed into?
3. The water is collecting something from the air (and possibly other stuff is then happening to it).
4. Stuff is settling (or evaporating) from the water. What is this stuff? In the case of settling, probably organic matter (as betta mentioned), in the case of evaporation, something like small volatile organic molecules... but most US municipal water supplies don't have these problems (and further, filters take out a lot of these).
In any case, I confess that my personal interest in the matter was simply along the lines of having a large container to store water in, so that I have to fill it up less frequently (I filter water into a separate pitcher currently). Although I have read stories about containers changing the quality of the water, I have yet to see something that isn't pure conjecture.....
thanks drax but i am not trying to kill anyone especially a teacher.
and i do not clam to be a scientist though i do own a pretty good microscope and other equipment like this.
make of it as you will
i do agree about evaporating but the 2 L jar has a surface radius of 2 inches so i do not see that much of an effect.
as you might notice the PPM stabilized as i stated so i agree with leaching. i also feel that oxidation of iron in the clay can reach a equilibrium in a solution quickly at this volume.
so i think the jar is putting iron into the water and the time in which it sits i think O2 is dissolving into the water to a point were it stabilizes in the leach / oxidation of the iron.
ahhhhhh. did that make sense?
any who it does seem to help the tea which is the ultimate goal for me as storage in a readily usable manner is secondary. i like having 2L of water or 10L for that matter ready to go so i do not have to wait for it to come out of the spikit.
the water jar is a great idea if you drink a lot of tea for just the 2 reasons only but i bet there are others that i dismiss as part of the Daly use.
like the sound of a full jar when you put the lid back on.
this was just a test and only a test of the unglazed jar. if it were........ i still use the other glazed jars and seem to with my human sciences detect no difference so fare.
i will work on tuning them and see if i get any better/worse results.
and i do not clam to be a scientist though i do own a pretty good microscope and other equipment like this.
make of it as you will
i do agree about evaporating but the 2 L jar has a surface radius of 2 inches so i do not see that much of an effect.
as you might notice the PPM stabilized as i stated so i agree with leaching. i also feel that oxidation of iron in the clay can reach a equilibrium in a solution quickly at this volume.
so i think the jar is putting iron into the water and the time in which it sits i think O2 is dissolving into the water to a point were it stabilizes in the leach / oxidation of the iron.
ahhhhhh. did that make sense?
any who it does seem to help the tea which is the ultimate goal for me as storage in a readily usable manner is secondary. i like having 2L of water or 10L for that matter ready to go so i do not have to wait for it to come out of the spikit.
the water jar is a great idea if you drink a lot of tea for just the 2 reasons only but i bet there are others that i dismiss as part of the Daly use.
like the sound of a full jar when you put the lid back on.
this was just a test and only a test of the unglazed jar. if it were........ i still use the other glazed jars and seem to with my human sciences detect no difference so fare.
i will work on tuning them and see if i get any better/worse results.
