Hagi Ware (for japanese green tea)

Discussion on virtually any teaware related item.

Hagi Ware (for japanese green tea)

Postby trent » Mar 9th, '08, 14:27

does anyone know much about hagi ware?
How does it compare to tokoname ware?

Here's where I first learned about it.
http://www.artisticnippon.com/product/hagi/hagiyaki.html

User avatar trent
Posts: 288
Joined: Mar 06, '08
Location: immersed in tea
Contact trent:

Postby olivierco » Mar 9th, '08, 15:33

It looks nice. I was tempted to buy some, especially the Oni hagi matcha bowl but after reading " Hagi yaki is made of very porous clay. As the items are used, tea deposits seep into the glaze, changing the color", I didn't buy it.

User avatar olivierco
Posts: 3375
Joined: Feb 08, '08
Location: France

Postby Space Samurai » Mar 9th, '08, 16:07

I'm a bit new to hagi ware, but so far I love it.

There are different styles: http://www.zencha.net/pottery.php. Wabi Sabi is very prevalent in Hagi, but not all Hagi uses that thick white glaze.

Here's mine:

Image

As far as Tokoname vs Hagi... I prefer Tokoname for my pots and Hagi for my cups, because I prefer far more wabi sabi in my cups than I do my pots.

A lot of glazed teaware, wherever it comes from, can be stained by tea.

User avatar Space Samurai
Posts: 1634
Joined: Jan 28, '07
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Contact Space Samurai:

Postby betta » Mar 9th, '08, 16:33

Space Samurai wrote:A lot of glazed teaware, wherever it comes from, can be stained by tea.


Space, the teabowl you have is with seigan blue glaze isn't it?
I bought also a yunomi with seigan blue glaze.
Actually I intend to see the 'cha nare' people associate with hagi ware.
The tea stain penetrates so far through the vein line on the glaze inner the cup. I wonder how does the 'cha nare' looks like.
How's yours?

User avatar betta
Posts: 521
Joined: Jan 30, '08

Postby Buzz Fledderjohn » Mar 9th, '08, 21:50

olivierco wrote:It looks nice. I was tempted to buy some, especially the Oni hagi matcha bowl but after reading " Hagi yaki is made of very porous clay. As the items are used, tea deposits seep into the glaze, changing the color", I didn't buy it.


Don't let that stop you, changing color is part of the 7 changes of Hagi.

I have a couple of Seigan pieces on the way to me.

Buzz Fledderjohn
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 04, '07

Postby trent » Mar 9th, '08, 21:52

what are the other 6 changes?

Also, is there a difference between the way hagiware brews japanese green and the way that tokoname ware brews japanese green?

I asume that tokoname would absorb more flavor because it is entirely unglazed, whereas hagiware is only porous in it's cracks.

User avatar trent
Posts: 288
Joined: Mar 06, '08
Location: immersed in tea
Contact trent:

Postby Buzz Fledderjohn » Mar 9th, '08, 22:15

trent wrote:what are the other 6 changes?


I believe they are all related to color:

"It is also well known that the colours of the Hagi pottery change over the course of time, giving rise to the 'myth' of 'The Seven Changes of Hagi Pottery'."

Buzz Fledderjohn
Posts: 223
Joined: Nov 04, '07

Postby scruffmcgruff » Mar 9th, '08, 22:17

I think that, generally, the flavor-absorbing properties of unglazed clay are overstated. I know it works, but I doubt it really has much impact on anything (except in a few circumstances, like with shupu).

User avatar scruffmcgruff
Posts: 1665
Joined: Jan 11, '07
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Contact scruffmcgruff:

Postby Salsero » Mar 10th, '08, 01:36

scruffmcgruff wrote:I think that, generally, the flavor-absorbing properties of unglazed clay are overstated. I know it works, but I doubt it really has much impact on anything (except in a few circumstances, like with shupu).
I concur. We have to acknowledge that these unglazed pots are most often made of extremely fine clay that has very low porosity. In fact, that is probably just the reason that craftsmen picked the fine clays of Tokoname and Yixing to make this stuff in the first place!

The pots we deal with in tea preparation are not made of the same stuff as flower pots or other inexpensive, porous pottery we see around.

User avatar Salsero
Posts: 5214
Joined: Dec 20, '06
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Gainesville, Florida

Postby brandon » Mar 10th, '08, 01:51

scruffmcgruff wrote:I think that, generally, the flavor-absorbing properties of unglazed clay are overstated. I know it works, but I doubt it really has much impact on anything (except in a few circumstances, like with shupu).


Scruff, have you tried a Hagi piece? The water absorption characteristic is immediately apparent.

In general I would agree that tokoname (esp slip-cased?) is not appreciably porous, and yixing is several times more so, but not to the extent of Hagi.

User avatar brandon
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sep 25, '07
Scrolling: scrolling
Contact brandon:

Postby Space Samurai » Mar 10th, '08, 02:57

I can't find the care instructions that came with my piece, but it talked about leaking--esentially the glaze and clay will absorb water all the way through, I think, and I have noticed that sometimes my Hagi chawan feels slick when I'm using it.

Both of my Raku chawans are "glazed," but the first few times I poured water in them there was a distinct crackling sound, like rice crispies. And both Raku and Hagi come with explicit instuctions to be sure to dry them thoroughly to prevent mold. That's some serious porousity.

I do agree that in general the porousity of Tokoname and what not are over-exagerated. I also think that many of this pots and bowls are expensive, so better safe than sorry--I wouldn't brew earlgrey in a sencha pot for long periods of time, but the next Tokoname I'm buying I plan to use for a wide rang of oolong (anything not floral for the most part), and don't expect to have any problems.

User avatar Space Samurai
Posts: 1634
Joined: Jan 28, '07
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Contact Space Samurai:

Postby hop_goblin » Mar 10th, '08, 09:53

Space Samurai wrote:I'm a bit new to hagi ware, but so far I love it.

There are different styles: http://www.zencha.net/pottery.php. Wabi Sabi is very prevalent in Hagi, but not all Hagi uses that thick white glaze.

Here's mine:

Image

As far as Tokoname vs Hagi... I prefer Tokoname for my pots and Hagi for my cups, because I prefer far more wabi sabi in my cups than I do my pots.

A lot of glazed teaware, wherever it comes from, can be stained by tea.


I know I have commented on your cup before space, but it is lovely!

User avatar hop_goblin
Posts: 1955
Joined: May 22, '06
Location: Trapped inside a bamboo tong!
Contact hop_goblin:

Postby osadczuk » Mar 10th, '08, 19:24

hop_goblin wrote:I know I have commented on your cup before space, but it is lovely!


That is a seriously pretty cup!

User avatar osadczuk
Posts: 125
Joined: Nov 27, '07
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Postby Chip » Mar 10th, '08, 20:07

That is a serious work of functional art.

Kyusu can btw be made of Tokoname Clay, stoneware/ceramic, or other materials. The stoneware ones do not absorb water or odors...so I have read somewhere. Tokoname certainly can, though not much, but still a little caution is advised. And of course, Hagi has been discussed already.

User avatar Chip
Mod/Admin
Posts: 22808
Joined: Apr 22, '06
Scrolling: scrolling
Location: Back in the TeaCave atop Mt. Fuji

Postby chamekke » Apr 6th, '08, 19:21

I remember reading somewhere that Hagi's colour changes are different depending on the liquid being drunk (which figures, I guess). Apparently, drinking sake from a Hagiyaki cup makes for warmer colour changes than tea does. If I'm recalling correctly.

Wish I could remember the source for this - it might have been Robert Yellin on his eYakimono website.

Incidentally, I have some small sencha cups with the amamori effect (this means "leaky roof" according to Yellin) - so called due to the spots that appear on the surface of the piece. When the base colour is cream/white, the spots tend to be pinkish. Not everyone cares for these, but I've grown to like them!

User avatar chamekke
Posts: 2004
Joined: Apr 06, '08
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Contact chamekke:


Today's Poll



Community

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest