Gasp!!!

One of the intentionally aged teas, Pu-Erh has a loyal following.


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Jun 7th, '09, 16:43
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by Seeker » Jun 7th, '09, 16:43

tea-guy wrote:Mmm, those look tasty... Om nom nom... :)
Hi Tea Guy,
Wow, what a supremely interesting topic!
In my experience, some pu-erhs can look very tasty, only to be smoky, ahsy, and choke-y, i.e. - bad. And, unageable (unless you have access to roughly 90-100 degrees F and high humidity as constants).
I have been really into pu-erhs for about 4-5 (just changed this, 2-3 was wrong, wow how time flies) years now, and still consider myself not much more than a beginner. It is an ancient and complex arena of tea - full of counterfeiting, and both good and bad teas - and I must share that in my experience there are a lot of undrinkable/unpleasant pu-erh teas out there. Many sheng cakes yield a chan-ko experience (forgive my complete lack of chinese linquistic skill - I have only heard the term - and do my best here to share it - I think it means roughly - choke throat; I have some online-purchased sheng pu-erh cakes that were "5 star", well reviewed, and which upon brewing I found undrinkable - they impart a choke throat experience, and sadly, here in the bay area of Calif, I cannot age them unless I invest in some kind of incubator - plus I don't have the time or inclination, or skill to monitor them and know how to respond properly to the inevitable mold/mildew that would ensue from the needed humidity).
Also, my sense is, for a green/raw/sheng cake to age to a proper, good, dark pu-erh that yields a dark rich infusion, would take (my guess) somewhere along the lines of at least 15+ years, and again, at relatively high heat, and high humidity (both are needed).
Now undoubtedly, there are those out there who may enjoy teas that impart the choke throat experience - but after having dialogued with several very experienced tea drinkers (particularly chinese tea people) this is not the desired quality (and as a tea lover, epicure, and foody, I hate it).
I am fortunate to live near a couple of very good tea houses (Teance in Berkeley, and Imperial Tea Court in San Francisco), and have had access to a couple of tea masters (Roy @ Imperial and Master Wang who visited at Teance and does his own thing @ Zen and Tea - he is involved with the Pu-erh Institute in China).
I'd like to dispel a rampant myth about aging pu-erhs - if you purchase a sheng pu-erh with plans to age it - probably not possible. Pu-erh tea, in order to age needs heat and humidity together, and due to the humidity, must be monitored to protect against unwanted molding/mildewing. I have been informed, much to my dismay, that pu-erhs that I purchased and that I thought were aging, are not due to the lack of a proper combination of heat and humidity. I have verified this by tasting again some cakes I bought 1 1/2 years ago, and they go unchanged in any way.
Teance sells very reputable, and lovely pu-erhs (I recommend the pu-erh A, also the 15 year - both are loose, not cake, and shu/cooked).
Also Imperial Tea Court has reputable pu-erhs, and you could call and probably arrange to speak to Roy, and get a good recommendation.
Occasionally I have tasted (and purchased) some good green/raw/sheng pu-erhs - and the most consistent is from Rishi tea. They sell in toucha form, also bing-cha (300g cake form) and both are good.
Good luck, and may the Purple be with you!
ps - Master Wang has a site, also SF, Zen and Tea. I highly recommend the Trinity brick!
Last edited by Seeker on Jun 7th, '09, 18:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Jun 7th, '09, 18:20
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by Seeker » Jun 7th, '09, 18:20

Another informational site that I like is http://www.pu-erh.net Many good links. Much good info. At the least, I have found it a good place to start and even go back to from time to time.
More comments on aging pu-erh:
The pu-erh.net guy does seem to support, at least in some way, the misunderstanding that you can age pu-erhs at home- but then I don't know where he lives and what his local consistent temp and hum is; one caveat- he does site humidity of 70 as necessary - I call 70 high, he doesn't; I guess here in east bay, SF bay area of california, the norm is somewhere around 40; I've been told by chinese tea experts that essentially you'd need to duplicate the aging conditions in Yunnan - and I'm told that's relatively high heat, and high humidity - and this would need to be consistent for aging to occur.
Best to all.

Jun 7th, '09, 19:31
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by Proinsias » Jun 7th, '09, 19:31

I think only time will tell what happens to young cakes of sheng being stored in varying conditions all over the world.

I live in Scotland where he humidity is fairly high but the temperature is fairly low. What a cupboard in a heated room in this climate will do to cake of sheng is anyone's guess. Will it turn out tasting like something which has been lying in a warehouse in southern China for 20 years? probably not. Will I enjoy drinking it in 20 yrs time? hopefully.

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Jun 7th, '09, 20:44
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by Seeker » Jun 7th, '09, 20:44

Proinsias wrote:I think only time will tell what happens to young cakes of sheng being stored in varying conditions all over the world.
Will I enjoy drinking it in 20 yrs time? hopefully.
Proinsias,
Cheers! I hope so too. And I like to keep in mind that most (if not all) of these experts are in the business of selling their tea. I hang on to those cakes of pu-erh that are 'chan-ko', and hope against hope that in 20 years time they will indeed produce silky, dark, smooth elixir.
Pu-erh seems a complex subject. My shengs are still green after a few years in my cabinet. I note that some supposed sheng cakes for sale on line that are listed as 2008's or 2007's are pictured as very dark (totally oxidized) - so I wonder at what the truth of some of this might be. Certainly I have been advised that since research made pu-erh a highly sought after item, much untruth and deception arrived in the market, and that many sheng are actually shu. Who knows for sure. I research this stuff due to my interest, love, and fascination with tea and with pu-erh, hopefully to protect myself against fraud as much as I can. Thus my interest in sharing what I have learned.
I hope my sharing is only helpful, and at the very least, inspires research and study by others.

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Jun 7th, '09, 21:14
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by entropyembrace » Jun 7th, '09, 21:14

I don't have any long term aging experience but my basket of Liu An and my pu-erh tuocha's have definitely changed in the year I've had them stored in my bedroom closet. Humidity I don't think gets very high in Edmonton but summer can be hot and my room gets warmer than the rest of the house from the central heating in wintertime.

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Jun 8th, '09, 01:56
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by Tead Off » Jun 8th, '09, 01:56

If you are a real Pu head, moving to SE Asia is your only choice. :wink:

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Jun 8th, '09, 09:01
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by tea-guy » Jun 8th, '09, 09:01

Lots of really educational discussion here! I'm enjoying the discourse! Keep it going! :-)

So much to learn!
---

Tea-Guy

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Jun 11th, '09, 22:52
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by tea-guy » Jun 11th, '09, 22:52

Thanks to a suggestion from this topic I ordered the Pu'erh tea sample set from Imperial Tea.

I am unsure how to tell between the different types of pu'erh. Obviously I can tell if something is a "bird's nest", but do bird's nests come in different types of pu'erh? What's the difference between Sheng and Shuuh?

A complete beginner here... :-p

===

I tried the mini birds nests I got as part of this package and enjoyed them very much.

I had been challenged by Ilya as this year's World Tea Expo to find adjectives other than earthy, mossy or dirt to describe pu'erh. I'll be working on that. :-)
---

Tea-Guy

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Jun 11th, '09, 23:07
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by pb2q » Jun 11th, '09, 23:07

tea-guy wrote:I am unsure how to tell between the different types of pu'erh. [...] A complete beginner here... :-p
This is a good start:
http://www.wikicha.com/index.php/Puerh

Also review: http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t=7012
tea-guy wrote:What's the difference between Sheng and Shuuh?
sheng isn't shu. shu is processed to artificially simulate aging: http://www.wikicha.com/index.php/Puerh#Cooked_puerh

Jun 12th, '09, 01:25
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by yee » Jun 12th, '09, 01:25

pb2q wrote:
tea-guy wrote:I am unsure how to tell between the different types of pu'erh. [...] A complete beginner here... :-p
This is a good start:
http://www.wikicha.com/index.php/Puerh

Also review: http://www.teachat.com/viewtopic.php?t=7012
tea-guy wrote:What's the difference between Sheng and Shuuh?
sheng isn't shu. shu is processed to artificially simulate aging: http://www.wikicha.com/index.php/Puerh#Cooked_puerh
No, it is defenitely not. Wodui technology exists for more than 600 years... You shuld read something about chinese black tea(黑茶) But dont mix blacktea with aged tea. And it has already been said by experts of Menghai tea factory that sheng(as green tea) will never become shu(which is black) in the process of the natural fermentation.

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